SnowRunner Hard Mode

@gbeeTen said in SnowRunner Hard Mode:

I restarted several times

in normal mode? but how it is possible?!

all vehicles are free, fuel etc are free, WHY to restart? i cant imagine the flow of event forcing you to restart...even without usage of a recovery option

@gbeeTen

I see my first flaw, I have 3 vehicles that I bought in a DLC, The Khan, The WesternStar 49x and the Bandit.
The Western Star 49x is going to chew up this map.

Second flaw, to just repair the Feetstar takes €2,500 of my €8850 game money.

@gbeeTen
so you get the truck for FREE and not happy you need to invest some cash into repairs?
dont use it, earn money with gmc and buy the new one!

last edited by Stazco

@Stazco said in SnowRunner Hard Mode:

in normal mode? but how it is possible?!

Yes, keep in mind I'm going back to last year when SnowRunner launched, vehicles are not free but I do see I'm starting HC mod TODAY, with maybe €200,000 worth of vehicles.

Back then I only had the Khan, and I followed bad YouTube advice, and went broke. First Mistake was to sell the Fleetstar. 🙂

"Refueling in a garage is disabled."
Allow players to refuel at garage, like many would IRL. But you have to go pick up, pay for and bring fuel back to garage every time the tank at the garage goes empty.

last edited by idiocracy

@secelit3

Well, I can’t speak to your poorly designed argument because I’m not going to speculate.

Have a look at the XML code and the various trucks, especially when you get them - its missing any game concept. A lot of work for making the 3D model, can leave the Michigan garage, thats it with alpha-testing. That not even close to speculation. Nearly all of the old US trucks had the same suspension settings - not exactly working. With the vorons you get a way better working set - again copy & paste. Especially if you look at the SD114/Derry 45 or the early game implementation of the Derry 31 before it got the active suspension. And other early trucks as Step300 and ZIKZ are quality wise the same. With the Vorons, the Devs seemed to have driven on their own map. As these suddenly get a good truck for practically free (Tayga), the buyable ones get heavy tires (rather than the medium) plus more power. The "old RU" as Zikz/Step300 are "somewhere, you don't need to use these".

I agree with one aspect - using OP mods is not even close to fun. Its cheating yourself. 2/3 to 3/4 of the whole truck fleet are created pointless if you cannot buy/sell them without losing cash. Thats my point. Cause "can haul few semi trailers" as the M916 - why not taking an AZOV 64 or Voron AE? Better engine, Auto AWD/Diff, better fuel economy, even more fuel. And way better tires (heavy rather than medium). In current hardcore, buying the M916 is a waste of cash. The SD114/Derry 45 even more. Currently you can go for "ok, thats a simple job, I take something very different for my entertainment". As you may have a challenge rather than a simple job, but not lose cash or even risk progress with failing hard. Thats poor game mechanic design.

My approach would have been to log the mileage on each truck and implement also a WEAR factor. The higher the wear, the more likely it will break down. Maintenance (your garage does it) will mitigate that breakdown a bit, but for selling it - the loss in cash is according to your mileage. Low use -> high sale price.

Although I repeat myself - my critics is not that a hardcore mode exists. Its that the current game mechanics do not really support that mode or even make it fun. Make a list of all available trucks and then cross out those, you not gonna buy "because". The shortlist will be very short.

last edited by JTT

So I have been able to test out HM and am liking it very much as it adds a complete new element to the game and management of everything from resources to equipment can determine if you will succeed or fail. A couple things I have noticed early and maybe it is hidden in some dark deep corner but I have not been able to find the re supply zone for the service trailers and add on. Also I noticed and I like is that when you hit stuff and get body damage to your truck it does not get fixed and the damage stays even though you have repaired and like I said I like this but is it possible to add the option to repair bodywork of truck in the garage for a price? I intend on continuing to test hard mode and will give further feedback.

@JTT said in SnowRunner Hard Mode:

@secelit3

Well, I can’t speak to your poorly designed argument because I’m not going to speculate.

Have a look at the XML code and the various trucks, especially when you get them - its missing any game concept. A lot of work for making the 3D model, can leave the Michigan garage, thats it with alpha-testing. That not even close to speculation. Nearly all of the old US trucks had the same suspension settings - not exactly working. With the vorons you get a way better working set - again copy & paste. Especially if you look at the SD114/Derry 45 or the early game implementation of the Derry 31 before it got the active suspension. And other early trucks as Step300 and ZIKZ are quality wise the same. With the Vorons, the Devs seemed to have driven on their own map. As these suddenly get a good truck for practically free (Tayga), the buyable ones get heavy tires (rather than the medium) plus more power. The "old RU" as Zikz/Step300 are "somewhere, you don't need to use these".

I agree with one aspect - using OP mods is not even close to fun. Its cheating yourself. 2/3 to 3/4 of the whole truck fleet are created pointless if you cannot buy/sell them without losing cash. Thats my point. Cause "can haul few semi trailers" as the M916 - why not taking an AZOV 64 or Voron AE? Better engine, Auto AWD/Diff, better fuel economy, even more fuel. And way better tires (heavy rather than medium). In current hardcore, buying the M916 is a waste of cash. The SD114/Derry 45 even more. Currently you can go for "ok, thats a simple job, I take something very different for my entertainment". As you may have a challenge rather than a simple job, but not lose cash or even risk progress with failing hard. Thats poor game mechanic design.

My approach would have been to log the mileage on each truck and implement also a WEAR factor. The higher the wear, the more likely it will break down. Maintenance (your garage does it) will mitigate that breakdown a bit, but for selling it - the loss in cash is according to your mileage. Low use -> high sale price.

Although I repeat myself - my critics is not that a hardcore mode exists. Its that the current game mechanics do not really support that mode or even make it fun. Make a list of all available trucks and then cross out those, you not gonna buy "because". The shortlist will be very short.

@JTT said in SnowRunner Hard Mode:

@secelit3

Well, I can’t speak to your poorly designed argument because I’m not going to speculate.

Have a look at the XML code and the various trucks, especially when you get them - its missing any game concept. A lot of work for making the 3D model, can leave the Michigan garage, thats it with alpha-testing. That not even close to speculation. Nearly all of the old US trucks had the same suspension settings - not exactly working. With the vorons you get a way better working set - again copy & paste. Especially if you look at the SD114/Derry 45 or the early game implementation of the Derry 31 before it got the active suspension. And other early trucks as Step300 and ZIKZ are quality wise the same. With the Vorons, the Devs seemed to have driven on their own map. As these suddenly get a good truck for practically free (Tayga), the buyable ones get heavy tires (rather than the medium) plus more power. The "old RU" as Zikz/Step300 are "somewhere, you don't need to use these".

I agree with one aspect - using OP mods is not even close to fun. Its cheating yourself. 2/3 to 3/4 of the whole truck fleet are created pointless if you cannot buy/sell them without losing cash. Thats my point. Cause "can haul few semi trailers" as the M916 - why not taking an AZOV 64 or Voron AE? Better engine, Auto AWD/Diff, better fuel economy, even more fuel. And way better tires (heavy rather than medium). In current hardcore, buying the M916 is a waste of cash. The SD114/Derry 45 even more. Currently you can go for "ok, thats a simple job, I take something very different for my entertainment". As you may have a challenge rather than a simple job, but not lose cash or even risk progress with failing hard. Thats poor game mechanic design.

My approach would have been to log the mileage on each truck and implement also a WEAR factor. The higher the wear, the more likely it will break down. Maintenance (your garage does it) will mitigate that breakdown a bit, but for selling it - the loss in cash is according to your mileage. Low use -> high sale price.

Although I repeat myself - my critics is not that a hardcore mode exists. Its that the current game mechanics do not really support that mode or even make it fun. Make a list of all available trucks and then cross out those, you not gonna buy "because". The shortlist will be very short.

Again, and not to sound like a broken record, I don’t think the developers intended for hard-mode to be a new experience. Mud runners wasn’t. It’s intention is to slow the player down, and create an experience that requires, strategy, patience, and thought at a budget.

By the way, confirmed, the buying selling money glitch no longer exists is phase 4

Again, and not to sound as a broken record - that seemed to be implemented with minimal effort rather than having a point in gameplay. Thats closer to a masochistic gameplay rather than a challenge.

last edited by JTT

@JTT said in SnowRunner Hard Mode:

masochistic gameplay rather than a challenge.

Like there I am trying the hardcore, in Michigan, Black River, I have my two game trucks stuck, so I spend all my money on the FleetStar ~ only to have it sit outside then garage after a 'full' repair empty of fuel.

As long as the devs do not balance trucks at all, I see no point to test that at all.

@gbeeTen said in SnowRunner Hard Mode:

@JTT said in SnowRunner Hard Mode:

masochistic gameplay rather than a challenge.

Like there I am trying the hardcore, in Michigan, Black River, I have my two game trucks stuck, so I spend all my money on the FleetStar ~ only to have it sit outside then garage after a 'full' repair empty of fuel.

thx for info! good test of game limits, to be put into “sr hm tips manual” for the new players

for experienced players its not a problem - i never were stuck on all vehicles in michigan, incl early game (where i didnt used any winch since no access to winch bumpers)

since we all here played sr a lot, i propose to consider this HM as a new experience while SECOND (or 1.5th) playthrough.
like in majority of games - we play some Normal mode, up to 50-100% progress, getting bored by simplicity, and turning HM on.
not like on MR case, where HM was ok for the new players.

@JTT said in SnowRunner Hard Mode:

As long as the devs do not balance trucks at all, I see no point to test that at all.

ok, we see your point and arguments. thank you.

please allow us, HM fans, to use this thread for its intended purpose - HM public TESTS, to make it better.
HM will not help to solve all game problems, so its not needed to put into this thread all possible feedback and our personal pains)

How many things have you noticed getting better after PTS?

I remember ONE - the handling of the forklift. Where it was already difficult to release that even worse.

@JTT said in SnowRunner Hard Mode:

Again, and not to sound as a broken record - that seemed to be implemented with minimal effort rather than having a point in gameplay. Thats closer to a masochistic gameplay rather than a challenge.

I get it but I enjoy the trucks the way they are. The developers did a great job diversifying the strengths and weaknesses of every vehicle. Each one is plenty capable if used correctly and inside of its limits. The game is fun to play, and the experience it provides is extremely satisfying. You went through the painstaking process of tweaking your trucks and providing your preferred experience to the community... pretty cool!

That said, let us who prefer the experience created by these creative artists enjoy it as it is. With every play session, I find some new amazing detail within the game that demonstrates the amount of passion that these developers have for their product. These developers care about their game and the community. Let it ride. The game will get better

@secelit3

The developers did a great job diversifying the strengths and weaknesses of every vehicle.

You have not played the game at all dude. You are trolling. And thats why this is my last statement for you.

last edited by JTT

@JTT said in SnowRunner Hard Mode:

@secelit3

The developers did a great job diversifying the strengths and weaknesses of every vehicle.

You have not played the game at all dude. You are trolling.

I play two games, and this is one of them. I restart with every phase, and every update. I probably have over 500 hours invested into this game. I’d say I’ve played it quite a bit. I don’t see the issues you and some of the other community see, but I take the experience for what it is, and it is great! I’ve tested almost every mod, and I can tell you that the upgraded engine power, traction, and torque ruin the game in my opinion. The developers balanced their trucks to fit a slow paced experience. I think tweaks and mods ruin the balance. Not all mods, but most. And yes, Snowrunner’s fleet, is very diversified.

Snowrunner is virtual, has its own world, its own terrain, and it’s own rules. The game is best enjoyed by those who can operate and adapt under those confines. Those who can’t, get pissed, bored, or ask for changes.

The point is that we should let the developers set the parameters because it is their art. If they choose to make a truck less powerful or designing its suspension in a certain way, let them. Let those who enjoy the game as the developers intended, enjoy it as is. Bugs are one thing, but asking for a global change in core mechanics to meet your preferences is another.

last edited by secelit3

@secelit3 said in SnowRunner Hard Mode:

get pissed, bored, or ask for changes.

Just to cut in there a little, I'm playing Euro Truck Simulator II now, In SnowRunner I've 35 days on PTS, 52 days on base game, and 6.6K hours in Euro Truck.

Where does one see the hours in SnowRunner? I probably look at it and don't see it.
I'm NOT looking forward to Imadra MKII on steroids and Hard Mode.

It is nice to see hard mode. And i was waiting for it, as all free repairs, fuel and 100% selling everything felt like a cheating and made many things much easier. Been playing on unannounced Hard Mode(Enabled through save game file) But new hard mode is even better now, but noticed few things that makes paid fuel in filling station and restocking points sort of useless. As still like in original mode, and old hard mode you still get free repair at Service Hubs and all trailers, addons are restocked for free, and because many Service hubs are located near Filling Stations or Garage, all these changes are made absolute. And old trick with re-installing addon(not re-buying), fully restocks it..so its enough to buy 1 Service Addon and you can always refuel and repair for free at your garage ,so if you make HARD MODE, please make it Right. Service hubs shouldn't be free, in my opinion Fuel @ service hubs should be even slightly more expensive than Fuel Station, and Repair should be paid too, as it fully repairs and restocks ur truck, just by passing through(including tyres).Make it as pop up screen do we want to re-stock + repair(for specific fee or not) or just disable it at all to make more use of new added Re-stock points. And reinstalling addons shouldn't re-stock them(unless sold and bought again). And Buying new Fuel Semi Trailer is cheaper than Refuelling ur old one,. Those are just few points I noticed so far. Thanks for reading, i hope some of these things will be addressed before it is released.

@idiocracy said in SnowRunner Hard Mode:

"Refueling in a garage is disabled."
Allow players to refuel at garage, like many would IRL. But you have to go pick up, pay for and bring fuel back to garage every time the tank at the garage goes empty.

Or, you know, you could just buy and place a fuel tank near the garage?