THANK YOU so much for actually going into detail about this! I don't have the patience to go point to point correcting people.
The calibers simply need to be modeled better in general.
Hey, that's what I'm here for!
Yeah, the calibers are all fucked, honestly.
@cool_lad Well, what even is light armor in this game? is it kevlar? if so that won't stop a 7.62x51. Even if it somehow did the impact alone could still kill you. (breakig ribs and puncturing organs)
I think light armor should be kevlar. So it can stop pistol rounds but not rifle rounds.
I would have to test more but i think heavy armor is already ok.
Light Armor in this game barely stops pistol rounds, even. It used to do a better job before it was nerfed six months ago. However, it can stop .308 rounds from some battle rifles (somehow) while being unable to prevent any intermediate calibers like 7.62 and 5.56 from killing with the same amount of shots.
Heavy Armor actually still fails to stop intermediate calibers at all (in CQB, at least) but helps more against battle rifles and pistols.
Honestly, this shit makes zero sense.
@Mainfold Ah shit, here we go again.
@sgt-kanyo With the .50 AE example you're moving into kinetic energy calculations, you're trying to twist an argument into having weight but you don't even know the physics for why it deals the damage it does.. smdh
Ek = 1/2 mv^2
Kanyo touched on this, but let me tell you; ballistics is a very complicated topic. Different bullets have different behaviors, even if they're the same caliber. 5.56 tends to yaw if I recall correctly. That might be 5.45 though. Still, there's a lot of shit involved with ballistics that's hard to replicate with standard math.
For instance, .45 ACP in a handgun tends to feel kinda "bouncy", but it's overall pretty comfortable to shoot. However, .40 S&W, a technically-smaller bullet, feels "snappier" to most people.
You can't just whip out...
Kinetic Energy = (1/2) x Mass x Velocity^2
...and expect to be believed by anyone, because it's not that simple at all. At this point, you're making yourself look like an even bigger idiot.
Take the L, and move on.
A .50 AE is a heavy projectile (high mass) moving at a relatively high velocity but not rifle-velocity because of the short barrels of the Desert Eagle (that's often the ones used for the measurements of it) but it is such a heavy round that it still has between 1900 to 2200+ joules of energy. That's almost double that of a 5.56x45mm NATO.. so you should be able to understand exactly why that is such a "heavy hitter" for PRETTY OBVIOUS REASONS.
It's got power, for sure, but it'll still underperform against armor due to the low bullet velocity and high surface area of the bullet.
The way you try to argue makes it seem like you're not particularly familiar with ballistics nor physics in general. Do you call yourself "Sgt." just because you like the sound of it?
Really? Trying to insult the guy (who I'm pretty sure actually served in the military and is very likely a Sergeant) for lying about his rank? Really?
It might be justified if you actually knew what the fuck you were talking about. Sadly, you do not.
Some of us on here have actually served and used a plethora of the weapons in the game, and have countless rounds fired in each of them.... but I don't expect everyone to have in-depth knowledge about firearms or have served (or even have much knowledge about firearms even if they HAVE served), but if you're going to try to be a smart-ass..... at least just google some basics about ballistics.
Let me guess: You googled the Kinetic Energy equation, pasted it and called it a day? Again, there's more to ballistics than a single mathematical equation.
I tried to simplify it so people could get the gist of it without having to know a vast amount about the topic, but you just had to come and be snarky..
So is this your full ballistics explanation? If it is, then this just proves you're a dumbass.
@marksmanmax A 12gauge slug has equal or greater energy than a 7.62x51mm/.308 (usually close to 50% more), and you wonder why it can more effectively kill than a .308? lol
First of all, you'd have to show me the stats saying a slug has more energy than a .308 round.
Second, I used the .308 damage on an unarmored target versus slug rounds on an armored target; one with Heavy Armor, no less. Slugs cannot penetrate plate armor or soft armor, while a 308 should definitely get through soft armor, at least.
Glock 17 doesn't have better velocity than the MP5's...
The in-game stats disagree with you on that one.
...some pistols (like the P226) have different twist-rates etc, and get better velocities...
Even with my limited knowledge of twist rates, this is bullshit if I've ever heard it.
Actually, don't twist rates affect the accuracy of the weapon? How fast the bullet is spinning would have no effect on how fast the bullet travels. Welcome to physics!
...you have to remember one thing when it comes to pistol-calibers... a LOT of the problems with it is, the ammo is often optimized for pistol use and not carbine use, so it's a high burn-rate powder that is meant to burn up completely before exiting a pistol-barrel, and when you then put it into a longer barrel it might underperform velocity-wise (but it varries).
Just because the powder burns completely doesn't mean the bullet stops accelerating. The bullet accelerates until it leaves the barrel. Longer barrel length = better velocity.
Granted, they seemed to have used SIG's numbers for the P226/L106A1 for upper limit to velocity when using +P ammo in it...
So why doesn't Sandstorm's stats state that? They mention guns that have AP and guns that don't have AP. Why leave out +P ammo from the stats?
...the MP5 for instance loses some velocity due to it's heavier mechanism it has to move when also being "blockback"-recoil driven, whereas a gas-operated pistol-caliber carbine would have more velocity usually.
So physics is gonna disagree with you on this one.
Newton's Third Law: "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." The bullet firing forward causes the gun to recoil backward.
How the gun handles recoil wouldn't affect the bullet at all, unless maybe some of the gas that would propel the bullet is lost for some reason.
Oh, and by the way, the P226 and Glock 17 also have higher bullet velocities than the Uzi, so have fun justifying that one.
The numbers are still technically "correct", just them choosing the P226's ammo will be +P ammo...
But Sandstorm's stats don't say that, so your point is invalid.
Trying to justify something by stating that something's happening, that the game doesn't acknowledge, is pretty retarded.
...your point about "as all the powder burns", well it doesn't on the SCAR-H for instance, round leaves the barrel before then, so its short barrel lands the round's velocity at that of the AKM by the time both have had their projectiles leave the barrel, those are the very same numbers as they have in real life.
Good job ignoring my main point, which is that 7.62x39 and 7.62x51 rounds have different weights or "grains". If a 124-grain 7.62x39 round is moving at the same speed as a 180-grain 7.62x51 round, then the 7.62x51mm round has more energy than the 7.62x39mm round.
After all, the KE equation is (1/2) x Mass x Velocity^2, and while the mass is increasing for the .308 round, the velocity remains constant, so the energy is higher. I don't know why I need to explain this to a "ballistics expert", but here we are.
You can probably google it and see it being the case. It makes perfect sense they have the same penetration when they have the same projectile moving at the same speed.. that's literally how it works.
You'd be correct if the projectile was the same. However, as stated before, it is not.
Things are working as they should...
I think I've proved otherwise at this point.
...your OPINION being that [the SCAR-H] should be performing better...
I think most people agree that the SCAR-H is far weaker than it should be for a .308 rifle, so it's not just my opinion.
Also, what you're saying is also either just opinion or blatantly-incorrect facts.
[The SCAR-H is] working as it does in real life and that's why it's based on the numbers they use.
Except it currently doesn't work like real life at all. Maybe one day, you'll figure this out. One day.
Once again let me just bring up the SCAR-H:
US Army: Right folks we need a new AR, since our 5.56 based M4s don't always kill with 1 shot.
FN Herstal: Sure man, here's an AR that is just as "bad" in killing term as the M4, but at least it only has a 20 round mag and weighs a lot more.
US Army: That's amazing, we'll take it.
This represents the flaw in @Mainfold 's argument right here. Seriously, this man is a dumbass.
Also I love how you applied high school physics here lol. Human anatomy and ballistics physics is a "bit" more complicated then that
It's so complicated that I won't pretend I know anything about it, and you shouldn't either.
You need to take into consideration how the bullet deforms on impact, how it travels through your body, if it travels through or stays in there, how it's higher weight carries more energy, how much of this energy is spread across the human body, how big in diameter it is and some stuff I can't even think of, since I'm not an expert. But I've seen videos / read in articles where these bullets kill, where they tear off arms if they hit your arm socket. Please do not argue with actual evidence.
Once again textbook is not always the same as real life. This can be said for anything.
Well put, sir! Glad to hear someone who actually served in our military who isn't a complete retard.
Seriously, at this point, I don't think @Mainfold served in the military at all. That dumbass part of him would've been beaten out.