RUNNING TOO MUCH-smoke screen opinion.(opinions pliz

running too much should give you the most worse screen you have seen in your life
im euxhasting my player and in general everyone runs without thinking it and everything is ok

maximize the weapon sway after running because even after euxhasting myself I can still aim just fine
breahing smoke should make my screen black and in general I should avoid staying in smoke just the coughing is not enough

opinions please

How about we refrain from penalizing players for trying to traverse these large maps in a reasonable amount of time? They're already risking getting shot; you don't need to add RNG to their guns. If you're concerned about people sprinting in CQB, how about making sprint take time to reach top speed? That way it doesn't affect the time you spend running to objectives while punishing sprinting in combat. Although personally, I don't see the problem with sprinting in CQB because you're voluntarily disabling your gun for faster movement

@cyoce

This is an excellent example of how the logic required to produce a "competitive" game makes for shit gameplay.

Lack of weapon sway to represent fatigue is the removal of a mechanic which represents the reality of fire-and-move combat.

Look at all the threads talking about how nobody plays ranked; they need more people, there needs to be more incentives, etc. Let's just have a game which isn't "competitive". Let's have a game where sprinting under half your weight in kit causes heavy breathing and immersive effects which hamper your ability to be an accurate shot.

Let's have good, immersive gameplay instead of a typical FPS clone which Sandstorm is really on the edge of being at the moment.

I think the current "penalty" for being in smoke are fine. You will cough, which gives your position away. If you wear a gas mask you have reduced field of view and sound is also muffled.

Sprinting is also currently perfectly fine with me.

I always wear my gas mask. I've had people comment at the start of the match like I'm stupid for putting it on. Its better than coughing and trying to put it on in the heat of the action.

It doesn't block your vision in any way that matters for gameplay. I've never noticed the sound being muffled either.

It does make sense that you would have to get out of thick smoke without a mask. Adds some realism, I guess, but im not sure how much it's needed.

Either way I don't care because I always wear my mask. 😄

Smoke while not very harmful should choke players more. I would like to see reduced stamina. But then I think infinite spring is too much I would like to see people begin to lose health after a long time sprinting. Meaning weight would have a larger roll to play too.

@whitby How is skill-based gameplay "shit"? I bought this game because I expected a product that would follow the footsteps of Insurgency. In that game, you had precise control over your gun. It didn't matter if you'd been running in the last 30 seconds. It didn't matter if someone fucking missed you. If you could control the gun, you could make your shots go wherever they needed to. Sandstorm's inclusion of mechanics like this is what makes it more like a "typical FPS clone."

Punishing players for moving and resolving gunfights with a roll of the dice in the name of "realism" is what makes for shit gameplay.

last edited by cyoce

@cyoce I guess it depends if you wanna more fast pace COD like gameplay or something more slower like Squad .. I`m fine with both ways ... I guess just slower transition to ADS after full speed run would limit a bit run&gunning while keeping forgiving gunplay ..

last edited by N4thani3l

@whitby I like the idea of having to build up to your top speed.

Whenever someone brings up "skill-based gameplay" I always roll my eyes a bit because it's usually in justification of being able to use a bolt-action as a CQB weapon as they stand their ground and flick shoot someone who got the drop on them, and other such nonsense you might see in the BF or COD games. No, I don't want "skill-based" gameplay if it discourages tactical gameplay.

Adding a bit of weapon sway after running as you catch your breath is realistic, and really only affects more distant targets which should be less of a threat anyway. The games I've played zip by really fast as the teams head-on blitz eachother, and I guess I'd like to see something a bit more cautious - though the weight system could really come into play here - someone with no armor/no vest, just an SMG and a handful of mags shoved in their pocket could still be fresh as a daisy after a mad dash to an objective, whereas a guy with heavy armor or a rucksack full of AK drums would be sucking wind, and needs some time to steady himself.

Smoke REALLY obscures your vision, real smoke grenades don't really choke you, so it's just an added game play benefit, and is good enough as it is.

last edited by Jarv

@cyoce said in RUNNING TOO MUCH-smoke screen opinion.(opinions pliz:

@whitby How is skill-based gameplay "shit"? I bought this game because I expected a product that would follow the footsteps of Insurgency. In that game, you had precise control over your gun. It didn't matter if you'd been running in the last 30 seconds. It didn't matter if someone fucking missed you. If you could control the gun, you could make your shots go wherever they needed to. Sandstorm's inclusion of mechanics like this is what makes it more like a "typical FPS clone."

Punishing players for moving and resolving gunfights with a roll of the dice in the name of "realism" is what makes for shit gameplay.

Ins2014 has weapon sway. It seems when you sprint and aim it's slightly greater.

Fatigue mechanics and suppression mechanics make it feel like you're actually in a gunfight.

CS:GO (and other "competitive" games) don't feel like you're in a gunfight. It feels like you're in a game.

Sandstorm isn't nearly as immersive as Ins2014. It's watered down mechanics with better graphics.

I want an immersion shooter. I already own plenty of "competitive" games. None have hooked me like Ins2014 or DoI.

Sandstorm isn't exactly failing at being an immersion shooter, but it's certainly not succeeding. By comparison to Ins2014, the gameplay is kinda shit.

last edited by Whitby

@whitby I get what you're saying man but I think NWI is looking to escape the niche market and find some middle ground that attracts more players.

@mlb7

Yet competitive is dead already.

I agree on their intentions. However, the implementation has created a watered down, non lethal, non immersive game by comparison to their previous titles. At the expense of making it more like the other thousand samey, interchangeable titles.

It's losing its identity.

@whitby Source weapon sway is hardly noticeable most of the time, and when it is you can just press shift because the focus ability isn't disabled after running or being "suppressed" like in Sandstorm. In Souce, I'm pretty sure that your gun doesn't wildly swing after a few people shoot at you and miss.

If you liked Source more, why are you arguing against a return to form?

You know what I don't find immersive? Dying to bullshit.

last edited by cyoce

The lack of inertia for both weapons aiming and player movements is something that I absolutely think should be addressed in my opinion.

so b ased on your comments almost everyone want a major penaldy for breahing smoke

how can I make a dev see that?

@consolefreaked

If you are in good shape and do regular exercise , the penalty for running and aiming after is not that huge. Check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biathlon if you want to look at a sport where you can compare real statistics in a sport using this feature while doing cross-country skiing. I don't experience this "worst of your life" penalty in real life, why should trained soldiers do so? (statistics not on mentioned page, but you can find plenty if you dig around).

Weapon sway after running is a cool feature imho, but as @cyoce points out, it doesnt need to be too rng, both from a reality perspective and a gameplay similar to the predecessors who got a lot of stuff right already.

Smokes have penalties already, revealing your position if not using a gas mask was a clever move, I think it is great "as is".

The predecessors did not go for realistic mil sims, at least not compared to Arma series. Straying too far away from the success recipe NWI got awarded for, may not be the best move.

last edited by Pacalis

@pacalis said in RUNNING TOO MUCH-smoke screen opinion.(opinions pliz:

I don't experience this "worst of your life" penalty in real life, why should trained soldiers do so?

Because trained soldiers are wearing 30 pounds of armor and ammo wrapped around their torso that restricts their breathing - which is another way the weight system can be made important in game. Ditch the weight, and it becomes a non-issue.

@cyoce

You should load up coop_buhriz, slap a C79 on something, spawn in and see how close you can hold that post on a distant target.

The wild swinging is bullshit, but some RNG sway tied into the weight system should be present.

@Jarv

EXACTLY!

@jarv said in RUNNING TOO MUCH-smoke screen opinion.(opinions pliz:

@pacalis said in RUNNING TOO MUCH-smoke screen opinion.(opinions pliz:

I don't experience this "worst of your life" penalty in real life, why should trained soldiers do so?

Because trained soldiers are wearing 30 pounds of armor and ammo wrapped around their torso that restricts their breathing - which is another way the weight system can be made important in game. Ditch the weight, and it becomes a non-issue.

30 pounds is just about the weight of armor. Total combat load, including weapon, tends to be closer to 60 or 80 pounds. Sprinting while wearing that is exhausting, even after a hundred yards or so holding a rifle steady is quite challenging. Biathlon athletes do everything they can to reduce weight, and they're athletes. Soldiers tend to be in good shape, but they many other things to train for other than running and shooting.

But, I don't want to see ARMA levels of weapon sway in the game, that's just frustrating. I'd rather see a slight increase in the amount of time it takes to mount the rifle after finishing a sprint.

I've no idea what smoke has to do with this.