The BIG Eldar thread and more

Bumping thread to let everyone know that I'm taking a break from the game/streaming, aside from balance testing. I'll still be doing that.

This is largely because of 3 major factors:

First, I do not feel that Eldar is rewarding to play. They are still too safe with 270-degree macros no matter how you slice it. Even with 9K engagement range, they still do a ton of DPS (intended), and their Holos give them unparalleled protection vs. macros and lances. The problem with Eldar (Mainly CWE and Corasirs) is not because of their holos or DPS, it's the fact that they still do not trade damage for safety. Eldar intrinsically must choose between damage or staying alive, they cannot have the best of both worlds or they will continue to dominate in the hand of a good player. Right now, CWE Torpedoes dramatically overperform because of their potential burst damage and the 270 arcs leads to high-reward behavior as you're constantly able to deliver accurate fire (with AP even) while still being able to infinitely kite the enemy.

Please make Eldar a 90-degree prow and 9K based fleet: This is in-line with GW design and allows Eldar to remain expensive, elite and high-damage dealing. However, they must be able to trade their safety for this playstyle or else the balance fundamentally breaks at the design level. They cannot be high-damaging and be safe since their holos already give them nigh-macro and lance immunity when they're moving. The Eldar must continuously make decisions whether or not to DIVE the enemy and do high-damage or run away until the opportunity presents itself and then you can dive again. These are timing sensitive and high-APM based decisions that must be executed well in order for Eldar to be considered difficult to play. If Eldar is not difficult to play, then they are fundamentally broken. They're a faction that's supposed to have a large barrier of entry with a higher skill ceiling than other factions. Right now, any idiot with a stutter can press T and deal massive burst with Torps or move away while still doing damage with 270 arcs.

Call me elitist or whatever, but I expect the global CWE/Corsair winrate to be in the 30%s, and if leaderboards conveyed skill and not grind, there should be a very small percentage of Eldar in the Top 25. That's when you know you got the faction right. Don't believe me? Play with Reload Corsairs/CWE over RTN and it's a completely different game (well, pretend you don't have 8 torps). That is actually how the Eldar are supposed to play.

My suggestions for this is two things:

  • Remove 270-degree firing arcs from all Eldar. Replace it with Tracking Sense, but without the whale noises (or with Kappa).
  • Decrease the number of Eldar Cruiser torpedoes from 8 to 4. Their burst potential is just way too high.

Second, matchmaking and the leaderboard is not a representation of skill, it's a representation of how much time you have on your hands. 1v1 and 2v2 currently feeds into the same leaderboard and you just need games to reach Legendary, which is the highest rank available. When you search for games, the algorithm seems to prioritize finding a game first above anything else. There might be a 5-second search window to find a "similarly skilled" player, but I don't even know if that's true because I am constantly being paired with players far below my skill level; regardless of they are in Legendary or Bronze. It's been this way since beta and I'm outright bored with the game when it comes to Ranked. Instead, I find custom games vs. other balance testers or players I know can put up a fight. I'm not sure what kind of skill-based algorithm that the game uses, but I don't see any indication of MMR or ELO. I would much rather wait 1 minute to find a game worthy of playing, than a 5-second wait time to find a player who I absolutely murder. It's not fun for me, it's not fun for the player who's paired up against me, and regardless of whether or not I win, I know that I will need tons more of these uninteresting games to catch up to some 2v2 player ahead of me on the leaderboard.

The leaderboard system itself does not promote a competitive environment. We are not low enough on players where you can relax the MM parameters to find any and all players, but what it is doing is killing the game entirely for competitive players like myself. This is especially worrisome when I see that data is being pulled from "Legendary" players; even if they're filter by 1v1. Playtime. Does. Not. Represent. Skill.

I encourage all to read this thread I posted on data:

My suggestions are:

  • Separate 1v1 and 2v2 into their separate ladders. Every major RTS title I can think of in the last 20 years had this.
  • Widen the search parameters to be much larger than they are now, prioritizing finding players of similar skill over getting a game.

Logic flow should look something like this:
Search players with similar rank in same region for 10 seconds; if not, then:
Search players with similar rank in next region for 10 seconds; if not, then:
Search players with similar rank in all regions for 5 seconds; if not then:
Search players with +/-1 rank in same region for 10 seconds; if not, then:
Search players with +/-1 rank in next region for 10 seconds; if not, then:
Search players with +/-1 rank in all regions for 5 seconds; if not, then:

Lastly, Dark Eldar Battleships. Yes, DE deserves their own section. Why? Because it is more effective to sit there with 3 Drukhari Battleships with Reload/AP ammo and shoot than it is to actually hit and run (because you're not doing damage). Let that sink in for a second, a long second. Yeah.. I'm going to throw out my Shadowfields proposal from Page 1 again.

Pitching this out again:

  • Consider reducing Drukhari BB DPS (e.g. Heavy Scythes) or overall weapon systems.
  • Consider lowering Drukhari BB HP and add a minor Holo-field effect to Shadowfields.

This will mean that they can't just sit there and AFK and deal damage, but they have to constantly hit and run to mitigate damage. This would also greatly encourage more Cruiser/Light Cruiser play and movement rather than the oversaturation of BBs we're seeing now. I don't know how the Drukhari in this game is almost the complete opposite of how they are on the table-top and fluff. Stealth is great, sure, but they're supposed to be fast raiders capable of doing great damage and then getting out. Eldar in general hate pitched/attrition battles and when it's more favorable to engage and right-click over movement and positioning, I feel that something is horribly wrong.

last edited by LKHERO

I agree with everything you posted. For BFGA 3 I would like to see an Age of Kings lobby system in multiplayer.

I really don't know why this automatchmaking becomes part of multiplayer games when lobbies give the community more control over settings and balancing teams and allow's people to chat and you know... create communities.

Thanks for the great thread @LKHERO! I've moved this topic to the Faction Discussion section.

do not agree with you about the 270 they are now with 9000 well because if I got into a close battle I would die very quickly from macro, trarans with my corsairs and even so the imperial ships on the AAF have the opportunity to catch me because of its duration, even if I use shift, besides, as you remember, the Void Stalker in the table had 270 degrees arc of fire for pulsars and guns, though it was exclusive for him, and indeed the desktop Eldars were far from balance with his escort who were in everything better than cruisers, and torpedoes are good right now because then they ignore the armor completely while the torpedoes of the remaining factions are only up to 50%
And it seems to me now that the corsairs are in a good place, for all the players' ranges, and not just for SC2 mmr
And now we have two identical improvements after the last patch for the flagship on the 4500 range, add something to it so that they are different

Problem is eldar have big DPS values because they have to prow face. With node CW cruiser can shoot broadsides for 28 DPS at 9k range with eldar accuracy 67 armor and holos. Tyrant have 11dps in same situation. If node keep the 270 arc it should have a severe dps reduction for shots outsider the 90 prow arc

last edited by Beernchips