[Feedback] Adeptus Astartes fleet feedback

Hey-ho. Just jotting some ideas down for the developers, but Space Marines as they stand are a complete and utter joke. I can get the same thing done as the Navy spamming cheaper and more deadly Avenger GCs which can mince any ship with health equal to ships I have to pay 450+ for as a Marine.

Durability is far too low and is probably the point I'll mention most. These ships cost sometimes two orr three times as much as counterparts on other factions despite having no significant health advantage or armour advantage. Battle Barges especially draw my ire here as these vessels really could do with 2 or 3x the health and shields they currently have for the price they demand. These vessels should function as a close range skirmisher mixed with an ork krooza - their armour needs to be significantly higher or their shield and health values need to be boosted to allow them to stay in the fight against overwhelming odds because due to their cost and weak armament, they are always outnumbered and always outgunned which is a terrible mix for any faction.

Either that, or lower the price to the 180 - 240pt range to allow 2 - 3 of them in 2v2s and 5 - 6 in 1v1s.

This applies to both 1v1 and 2v2 - I can burst 1200 shield points down in under 8 seconds with Navy builds involving the avenger. That's not even considering Nova Cannons which can potentially instantly cripple any Space Marine ship in one volley if you have three of them. Smaller ships just get destroyed outright.

This should go some way to helping them be more viable as right now these Marine ships are quite literally inferior to most ork vessels that you can pick up for the 160 point price range when used in a brawling match. Their only edge is the utility they provide in the form of assault options, but that's something I'll mention in another point later down the line.

Firepower is... actually pretty good.

The bombardment cannon hits suitably hard and the macro cannons on smaller vessels like the Strike Cruiser MK1 & Vanguard MK1 are very good at mincing unshielded ships for their price range. I still think these ships could do with some durability boosts though, as I'm paying 160 points for a ship that is two classes smaller and less armoured than an Imperial Navy ship of the same price, which also has far more firepower.

I do think the lances could do with being looked at, as they feel to simply tickle an enemy and almost never take down a shield which really just means they are almost never worth taking - the battlebarge with lances instead of bombardment cannon almost certainly never is, while it is stable sustained dps it also lacks up close and will never deal sufficient damage to even drop anything above a BC class vessel's shields.

Escourts are also pretty terrible, but at least these are cheap so whatever - they're point fillers on most factions so this isn't really an issue.

Utility options are a huge problem right now though. Seriously. Why are my Thunderhawk and Stormraven squadrons limited to 3 uses???

Space Marines are entirely built around boarding actions, they sacrifice weapons, speed and everything except armour/durability and boarding utilities. They are orks taken to an even further extreme, where instead of having a red button to ram their enemies they instead strap several thousand kilometers of extra armour around the entire ship to allow it to brawl with huge space stations and still come out ontop or to support planetary landings.

Lore stuff aside, in terms of gameplay, really - why are the attack options a Space Marine gets in order to deal with their enemies limited to 3 uses. They are easily shot down unless you have several vessels to do the job and not to mention, we're missing a core utility.

Where are my assault rams? You know, the vessel Marines use to board a heavily fortified and defended ship because it is so fast and so resilient that it can punch through all but the most durable vessel? I want to see this added to the game, throw it in as a guaranteed boarding action that cannot be shot down, this one you can limit to three uses but the rest should be made unlimited.

I understand other races having limits on this, and I understand the lore reasons why you might limit the amount of thunderhawks or torpedoes being used by a battle barge but this is ridiculous. This doesn't help balance the game in any form, it simply limits a race with already limited options to play in the most pigeonholed way possible - stay at long range and spam lances to play as discount chaos, because anything else is likely to get shut down by a competent {can micro more than 1 ship per minute} player.

Really though. This part is a must, I want to see thunderhawks of both variety and stormraven fighter wings get unlimited uses. They're already on a cooldown. Either that, or massively boost their assault power. I shouldn't be losing my extremely limited fighter wing to a squadron of Ork planes.

Secondly, on this front, I want to see the assault options get seperate cooldowns. I'm fine grouping lightning strike/boarding pods but Fighters & Bombers should be seperate. I have to use fighters to soften up a target for a bombing run anyhow, making the two coexist on the same rather long cooldown means that most times when I take out some turrets I cannot follow it up as the turrets will be almost immediately repaired.

Space Marines' boarding options do have pretty consistent results and most times succeed but the limit of how many times they can be used is ridiculous, they are not powerful enough to justify this limit.

Especially for a faction that is entirely built around boarding actions, differentiate them from the rest - when a Space Marine boards your ship, you've already failed as an admiral. Work around that concept.

So, to summarise this for those uninterested of reading through the text above:
Buff Marine durability across the board - as much as 2 or 3 times as much hull and shield in places in order to provide substantially improved sustainability in fights. Part of this would also include point defenses. It is far too easy to sabotage a Marine's battle barge with fighters and bombers due to the limited number of vessels a marine player can field while an opponent could field several vessels capable of spamming fighters & bombers which will overwhelm the single battle barge with ease.


Lower the price of marine vessels significantly.
Bring them in line with other factions so they can compete as an equal faction rather than existing as this discount 'elite force' where they get very limited ships but instead of all of the ships being very powerful, they're just all trash.

Marine firepower is mostly good, I do think lances need to be looked at as they don't seem to do enough damage to really justify using them. Your enemy can simply rush you as your ships aren't that fast and negate the advantage of range or consistent damage, as their proximity will mean their weapons do higher DPS with comparable accuracy.

Escourts are pretty solid, though very brittle they are akin to other faction escourts in most ways so it's whatever. I do think there should be an escourt with a fighter contingent though, to allow the escourts to provide fighters while your battle barge deploys a host of bombers when the fighters have taken out hostile turrets.

Astartes utility is extremely lacking. I overlooked this in the first game as it was just a DLC but this is really unacceptable. There's no passion or effort put into these assault abilities to make them any different from other factions barring some morale damage.

Orks have ramming, Space Marines have boarding. Fighting an Ork at close range is dangerous, fighting a Space Marine at close range is suicidal.

I want to see all Astartes boarding methods made unlimited or made significantly more powerful to justify a three use limit. I'm talking 1/3rd of HP per successful boarding action and 2/3rds per successful critical boarding action. As it stands, they are a joke in terms of boarding potential.

The same also goes for fire support options. Bombers & Fighters are not powerful enough with the limited number of Space Marine ships available to you in most matches to justify limiting their use to three times per vessel. These utility assets are absolutely crucial to Space Marine play because it revolves so heavily around boarding and assault actions - they sacrifice their firepower as a fair trade off and in return, we need to see their utility and durability take a few steps up.

Lastly. I want to see Assault Rams. Give Space Marines a unique aspect as far as boarding goes. A guaranteed boarding action that cannot be shot down. You can limit this one to three uses, as it should be noticably more powerful in their use. I'd go so far as to say it should be guaranteeing critical damage to components you target or at the very least push them near the edge.

All in all, I'm loving the beta so far. Game feels very solid and much like more of the same, which I very much enjoyed. I'm looking forward to the campaign and do hope to see more done with Multiplayer, (Titan mode!!! I want the Macragge's Honour), but the balance right now does worry me. And it worries me because it is very similar to how the first game was - an imbalanced mess with two very powerful races and the rest rather mediocre due to obvious oversights in design philosophy.

Hope you guys read it, take it to heart and maybe implement some of this into the final product. Might make playing Adeptus Astartes worthwhile as right now, there's very few ways too play them and even fewer ways to win games with them, mostly revolving around your enemy being bad more than you being able to win.

last edited by Focus_Camille

Against range builds there is no win to gain for Astartes fleets, once detected you get either outmanouvered, get shot to pieces by strong range weapons or simply spammed to death with bombers. Before you have the chance to get in your favourite battlerange your fleet is nearly dead.

Good post, give spacemarines some love. Got kicked-ass with space marines, like with no other faction. As mentioned normally u get shot to pieces or swarmed by bombers etc. Definetly needs some balancing 🙂

Definitely agree. I've mostly played AdMech because of how much less durable such a short range faction like Space Marines have been made into. I have many models for both armies on the tabletop, and I've been sorely disappointed with Space Marines' durability. It doesn't reflect the lore at all.

It is clear to everybody that Astartes need a rebalancing in the game as they have been copy-pasted from BFG with slight point rebalances and are currently the worst multiplayer faction.

Battle barge is fine as it is with its full battleship health pool and shields, and heavy armour all around. What needs to be looked at is its cost. It has 3 launch bays so if you launch fighters you can defend against all but the most concentrated attack.

Lorewise, NEW astartes vessels (after HH) except for escorts shouldn't have lances at all because of Imperial divison of power after HH. Navy jealousy.
Typical barge is 8-9km long so having kilometres of adamantium armour is impossible. It still has heavy armour all around just like necrons.

Strike cruiser need a 400 hp health buff to be equal to other cruisers.
Vanguard cruisers likewise need a health buff to light cruiser levels.
Both need a point cost rebalance.

A guaranteed assault action that cannot be shot down is a lightning strike. Any other form is a bad idea.

I don't see why Astartes of all factions would have unlimited boarding actions. Doesn't make any sense lorewise, nor balance wise.

Astartes boardings are already really powerful, point rebalancing should increase the number and tonnage of ships, so making it even more powerful may potentially end with it being OP, especially for a point and click ability. Homing boarding torpedoes also come into play here.

Strike craft: If Mechanics of launching fighters/ bombers is changed to separate cooldowns it would make carrier heavy factions OP so its a terrible idea. Of all Imperial factions Astartes should have the weakest strike craft capability for obvious reasons.

Summary: rebalance Astartes by health pool and point cost, after that is done take a look if they aren't op because of boarding torpedo/thunderhawk boarding/boarding action spam.

Last but not least, lets forget the over the top Astartes novels and look at all wh40k lore. Astartes are hardly the scariest thing that can board your ship. Do not forget that when working on the balance Tindalos.

PS. I am surprised that Mechanicus has the lowest troop values and boarding damage, but I respect the fact its because of the TT and doesn't take into the account the new lore in which boarding an explorator fleet full of skitarii cohorts is a bad idea.