Lets talk about battleships

Hey all,

So ive played a few hours of 2 vs2 with a friend today. I want to talk about battleships. In particular that I have yet to launch into a single game that dident have me facing 2 (or more) of them. I get it, everyone wants to play with the big toys and all that but they need support and when you only have 1 or 2 escorts or a LC (or another BB 😑 ) aside it you cant really do that.

Lorewise it would be pretty rare to have more then 1 BB in a strike force as well unless we are talking VERY major battles. And they always come supported with entire fleets. Having no requirement to bring them is abit off in my opinion.

Now dont get me wrong, im not saying its to strong. Like I said I played with a friend on 2vs2. Together we always had fairly balanced fleets and I dont think we lost much. Only when we made major mistakes like splitting up our fleets and letting the enemies rush (lol, with battleships) us did we get a solid pounding. But still it feels off and im getting flashbacks to the previous game once you hit rank 10 😒 then all you saw were BB's and some escorts trailing behind or infront of them and those were peoples fleets.

With the massive arsenal of ships that we have gotten I would have assumed people would experiment and try different things but I guess not?

The thing with 2v2 is that the point limit means it's often most cost effective to bring battleships. The smaller individual enemy fleets also means it's a lot harder to punish the lack of high energy turn than it is in 1v1. My 1v1 fleet only has one battleship because bringing anymore as IN is often too risky.

Well thing with battleships is that they dont bring alot more firepower then a heavy or grand cruiser does. In turn they are more tanky. But they really arent manouverable or fast so you are setting yourself up to be outplayed.

I play IN but what if I played Dark Eldar? Or nids? Or any other fast faction/setup with fast and stealthy ships? I could pick and choose where and how id want to fight them and when im arriving with half my full fleet up their backside good luck turning around in time before your ship is gone.

Ranked matches also have capture points and theyre far to slow and sluggish to do much with those, unless they luck out and have 1 or 2 near their spawn point I guess.

TL.DR version: I dont get why so many people overinvest in those BB's.

If you're play DE, that's the way you play that faction.

The rest though? Yh, BBs seem to get over-valued a bit. Like in 2v2 you can bring three GCs instead, that's more stats if you're crazy for stats.

People would probably pick BBs because it's easier / more fun to control 2 battleships instead of 4 cruisers even if those 4 cruisers were stronger on paper. Without tactical cogitators, deliberately reducing the amount of micro you need to do is a good strategy.

I'm not too fussed about the large number of battleships we see. It can be annoying against faster factions, but in general it seems that the benefits are balanced out by the limitations. 'Pure' battleship fleets certainly have some significant weaknesses that can be exploited.

If it becomes necessary, the devs can always incentivize the use of smaller vessels by giving BBs and BCs some small price increases.

I don't run anything bigger than BCs in my fleets at the moment as speed seems to be more important than tanking.

@jamodon said in Lets talk about battleships:

People would probably pick BBs because it's easier / more fun to control 2 battleships instead of 4 cruisers even if those 4 cruisers were stronger on paper. Without tactical cogitators, deliberately reducing the amount of micro you need to do is a good strategy.

Yeah, I got overwhelmed when I pick up the first layout of a fleet and got 16 ships, half of them shitty escorts than die from 2 salvos. It's easier to play heavy and sturdy ships because you can micro them effectibly.

Yeah can understand people are overwhelmed when they see the ship roster and just think 'bigger is better' while it isent always the case.

While the game has some features build in to make the smaller units have a purpose I feel the game very poorly explains this. Maybe their tutorials should more readily reflect this, to explain the importance of escorts and (to a degree) light cruisers?

Normal cruisers, battlecruisers and grand cruisers (aka line ships) generally dont fulfill functions other then doing damage, beeing carriers and such. Things that battleships can do to a degree as well, albeit theyre not as agile...

The big issue with trying to outbrawl a BB fleet as a CR fleet is the compound problem of:

  1. More micro. You have to steer 8 ships around instead of 4, line up their boardings, repair crits and fires, micro their energy gauge, adjust stances, etc.
  2. More punishment for not microing fast enough. I'm talking specifically about rams - in a messy brawl, it's easy to get a ram off before your opponent can react. A BB ramming your cruiser can potentially 1 shot it though, whereas a CR hitting a BB even with prow armor vs side armor isn't in your favor. This also applies to novas / rad storms, which are much more damaging to lighter fleets while also being harder to micro out of.

Without tac cogitators or Korean starcraft player APM, playing most cruiser fleets well is unrealistic.

I play a BS only Orks fleet. Have had 6 games lost 1 to the one and only player who even tried playing me out and he did so with complete ease not sweating for a second. He lost some cruisers but he simply hid one large ship from me and used his frigates to control the map. I had 0 chance. All other players simply tried to get me upfront or forgot some of their ships somewhere. It's really easy to play out an ORK BS Fleet it's extremly slow. But still most ppl are just here for the fight so far. I think this could evolve should this game really get recognized by competetive players. So far I don't see this as it's missing essentials like observer mode and it's well not very fast paced and usually those comp players want to micro the shit out of the game korean style. They don't want to sit their and do nothing for a minute.

@sahneyoghurt if you aren't using slowing lances or stealth high damage fleets should be able to out fight you over the length of a match

I haven't enough games under the belt to tell. So far noone outdamaged me yet. Best try was a mechanicum nova fleet that hit me pretty hard but still could not destroy me. He outmanouvered me and won through map control non the less. I have about 10 games or maybe 15 so far with my Ork fleet. I think I need about 300 more to make any saying about the balance XD. It's not obvious. The game seems easy on first look cause of the easy controlls but there is really some depth with all those fleets.

only way i have found as nids to beat full battleship orks is by killing their flagship and breaking their morale because of it
if the original rush after the flagship fails the game is basically over

I remember doing the old melta torp the admiral across the map trick on jamo in the previous beta

I really think you can win with map control against full bs orkz and quiet easy

nids have problems with that because maps have very few clouds so if they ever countercap they lose their stealth forever
nids arnt great at capping with the current map generation
can do it tho, just havnt tried because im not a big fan of that style when i have another choise

last edited by Ashardalon