What makes a good ship?

When considering fleet builds and faction strengths, what makes a ship solid or good or viable for a particular strategy?
For example, what makes a Defiant Light Cruiser better than a Dictator Cruiser or vice versa?

This really depends on the kind of build your going for and who you are facing. Most of time when playing IN (imperial navy) i just use lances and novas really. macros cannons will miss most of their shots a mid to long range and due to the about of factions that have long range engagements your better of with lances. Lances also shred armor well and have very high accuracy. you also need to remember the cost difference between the two the dictator is like 40 points more and you get a torp launcher and spur for ramming but if your just looking for a cheap way to spam fighters and bombers then Defiant might be a better pick and this isn't including any ability's.

Escorts are fast, can stealth up, and be used to detect stealth all for a cheap price. 1 or two are not bad for capping and spotting from stealth.

CLs can stealth up and generally have good speed. Very viable with IN, since it greatly increases their suitability against a lot of factions.

CAs tend to be trash unless you have some sort of cheese to make them work (ie, Star Pulse or Nova Cannons)

BCs tend to get outclasses by GCs for raw stats, but do offer mobility.

GCs are just cheap BBs, some of them make the BB equivalent pointless since they offer much more value for points.

BBs excellent value for points in most cases and should make a point of bringing at least one with most factions.

The golden Rule though:

For MP:
Anything with Ordnance is bad. Forget it. Those carriers you see scattered throughout the list of ships? Yeah? Don't use them against players. Brace makes them pointless. Maybe bring one for spotting if you really need it.

For SP:
Bring whatever.

last edited by CALiGeR_Reborn

@caliger_reborn I would agree this this 90% i forgot the mention the brace for impact thing.

So carrier based gameplay, at least in the current balance seems to be rather poor or good against players who aren't aware of Brace for Impact?

Is there any combat situation where carriers would be useful, aside from scouting?

@CALiGeR_Reborn By your evaluation it seems that large ships tend to outclass basically anything below them, disregarding spam or special weapons. What specifically makes the bigger better than spamming out smaller ships?

Any situation where Brace isn't used? Carriers are great.

Brace is being used? Carriers are utterly pointless.

As for the BB vs Cruiser, its down to better value.
As just a generic example, you get double the stats with the BB over the cruiser equivalent for roughly 1/3 more points. So if you go for more heavier ships you will have more firepower, more durability and an easier to play fleet for cheaper overall. The only thing you sacrifice in most cases is mobility, which is useful, but ultimately can't win you the game alone.

The exception kind of lies with CLs, which thanks to stealth have excellent utility for their price point, and Escorts may also be useful in small numbers.

last edited by CALiGeR_Reborn

I have seen some ork builds that spam fighters to get turrets down for assault boats. they managed to get through two braced BS. maybe fighters have a better dodge and the key to good ordnance use is to soften up your targets with fighter waves.

turrets only target one at a time
the trick is spam and ideally having lots of bays on one ship so you never lose the full launch
but mostly spam, you want the turrets gone before your squads take damage
interceptors do survive longer but they will still die fast to braced ship
but mostly spam

It seems that in the current swing of things spam has to be answered by spam. I'm glad we are getting this now in the Beta for Tindalos to balance out for release.

In your opinion, what are some of the best or personally favorite ships per faction and why? What makes them good?Why do you take them?

It depends on what you want from a fleet and whether you want it to be a generalist fleet or a more gimmicky one. Using only a few types of ship is guaranteed way to have your fleet synergise and makes it easier to micro so there is a pretty reasonable tendency for people to go with that.

@BrohanBroski In general terms, would it be more effective to specialize or have a multi-role fleet? What are some advantages and disadvantages of either approach to fleet building?

specialized is stronger but leaves you open to a counter
pretty simple really, the reason you generalize is to fill in the gaps in your fleet with as little as possible reduction in what made them good in the first place
depends if you build your fleet hoping to fight a certain fleet, or you build your fleet to win vs everything except a fleet that out specializes you and is built against your kind of fleet

kindof why carrier fleets are pretty bad currently
you can just brace as its on every ship and you are carrying the counter without sacrificing any ships
meanwhile there are probes taking the place of interceptors as scouts
so its a specialization thats easy to counter and brings very few benefits
but if you specialize massively and only on it your interceptor swarm can overload what the turrets can kill
leaving your opponent with no turrets to defend in the lategame and giving your bombers easy kills
the repair fixing afew turrets can drag it out but eventually you can come out onto if you live long enough
ofcourse that leaves your fleet weak in a actual fight and if you get cornered your bombers wont help so you can only do that if you are sure you can outrun the opponent you come up against
and if your opponent has carriers himself, combined with the turrets and the brace bonus they have the combination can kill interceptors before they can get back and at that point you might have spent all your specialization on stripping only a few ships of turrets and nothing that your bombers can really hit

last edited by Ashardalon

Depends what you mean by multi role. One of the biggest issues with mixing ships with very different roles and setups is that often if you're making the best use of one you're not really using the other. This is especially true with range and with the engagement distances generally being a lot longer than the first game close range ships are only ever brought en mass for a brawly dive comp. So you rarely see fleets with ships of mixed ranges unless those ships have a totally independent role (such as LCs). The changes to strike craft have made hangars a lot more expensive which has killed a lot of their spotting utility and multirole ships that rely on bringing 1/2 hangars and good firepower are a lot less viable as a result (rip Oberon). I would say in practice whatever fleet you bring (and there is a lot of variety in the factions that aren't acknowledged as being unbalanced/underpowered) should have ships of reasonably similar ranges and speed and an overall 'plan' behind it (this is one of the reasons why the default fleets are often bad).

I'll give you an example of two fleets I've ran. One I consider multi-role and one I consider gimmicky.

The multirole one and the one I consider strongest (This particular variation is so far undefeated though a DE has come close) is as follows:

Retribution admiral

4 overlords

2 cobras

2 swords

MWJ and Probe

The two shield upgrades

You can replace the overlords with three vengeances and drop an escort to pick up an LC (Dauntless is prefered) or replace the overlords with Armageddons out of preference.

The gimmicky one is a blast to play and beating a DE in about 2 mins was one of the funniest matches I've played.

11 Dauntless MK2s

1 Widowmaker

Skills don't really matter but probe and mwj is the best.

AP ammo and emissions dissipator.

The whole build revolves around putting all your ships on running silent before the match starts and rushing the enemy fleet as fast and you can to engage at point blank. Simple, effective (at least the first time you pull it off against someone) and funny as fuck.

last edited by BrohanBroski

using the widowmaker to prevent it revealing itself trough weapon fire?
if not you can probably replace the widowmaker with a more general escort
as you dont need the id range just the scanner range and the scan ability has the same range for other escorts now
a easier to use sword could be good if you have the room

nah can't afford anything bigger

🤔 widow is the cheapest now?
makes sense since it doesnt really have a good side compared to the others

cobra is cheapest with widow being second cheapest

cobra has a little macro
pray you never need it, but its still going to do more then the widowmakers id range
there is nothing id range can do that a scan cant

I did some list building and chaos carrier fleets with escorts work pretty well, even at low levels without the slaneesh stun. well enough that I will probably keep some defensive hangars in other fleets. you have extremly good pressure on the whole map and there is not much that can push back. you have to ditch everything bigger than a LC though, but idolators and hellbringers are a great combo.