the game doesn't feel like insurgency when people take so long to die. It makes it less fun, people should die in 1 2 or 3 shots not 4 to 5.

@young-simba With what guns do people tank more than 2-3 shots? You'd have to be more specific and possibly post a video of you shooting someone 4-5 times before they die.

He didn't specify to the torso. All the intermediate rifle cartridge weapons are 2-3 hit kills to the torso. If you wing somebody in the leg, the arm, then the lower torso, they'll still be standing just fine.

The MP7 is one of the few weapons which doesn't feel atrociously underpowered and even that I'm averaging 4.04 hits to kill, despite 28% of my kills being headshots. That's in practice a 5-6 hit kill weapon excluding headshot deaths.

Acc, kills, time, headshots, shots.
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The MK18 I'm averaging 3.23 hits to kill. Tends to be a 3 hit kill more often than a two in the torso and the shots to limbs need to be accounted for of course.

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M249 I'm averaging 3.20 shots to kill.

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M16 I'm averaging 3.05 shots to kill. 18% of kills were headshots...

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I recognise the casual demographic is vastly overrepresented on the forum compared to the amount of people who're really disappointed with the gunplay whom you happen to meet ingame, but the statistics speak for themselves.

last edited by Whitby

@whitby I have a completely different experience:

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M4A1: 2,75 shots per kill
PMK: 1,74 shots per kill
M249: 2,73 shots per kill
AK-47: 2,65 shots per kill
AKM: 2,51 shots per kill

These stats match what I have been experiencing in-game, really solid lethal TTK.

I recognise the casual demographic is vastly overrepresented on the forum bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla, but the statistics speak for themselves.

I don't know what your stats are speaking for, but I'm wondering why is there so much variance between our stats. Because there shouldn't be.

@jensiii Just curious does that make yours right? Because I have looked at my own statistics several times and there are discrepancies all over the place. Just sayin.. I’m at work so can’t attach a screen but one was something like one of the commander supports showing 0 kills which is just not even remotely close to right either way was just throwing that out there. Will also add like I did in another post that I have shot people at very close range with the m16 burst round having all three bullets land on target (all 3 registered? This I do not know) but in several instances it did not kill the person and I needed a second burst to finish them off putting that specific instance somewhere in the 4-6 bullets to kill range. Once again just simply stating and also not claiming that @Whitby has correct info either!

@planetcanada yeah I don't really trust really trust the stats either. But my stats match my experience, @Whitby stats seem to match his experience. We are supposed to be playing the same game. Why all this variance? I don't know.

I just tried a push game with bots, disabled AI and tried unmodded M4 and AK74. Even heavy armor required only 2 hits in the chest. Light and unarmored bots 2 hits chest with both weapons. Legs and arms took 3 hits. Shooting to chest through arm, 2 hits. So those rifles are effectively 2-3 hit kills.

Best would be, if two guys would test this out on a PVP server and record it.

last edited by jensiii

Try it on offline, idk if something is wrong with bots but without armor they survive an ak bullet, and if no armor is broken thats a big yikes.

MP7: 4.03 shots each kill
MK 18 CQBR: 3.23 shots each kill
M249: 3.21 shots each kill, M249: 2.73 shots each kill
M16A4: 3.05 shots each kill
M4A1: 2.75 shots each kill
PKM: 1.74 shots each kill
AK-74: 2.65 shots each kill
AKM: 2.51 shots each kill
@jensiii, you are only comparing one gun, and the amount of damage is affected by where you hit on the enemy in addition to headshots, and you have no information about hit rate on different body parts like arms, legs torso separated.

If I can confirm anything from this, it is that we have a low TTK already in my subjective evaluation of what a low TTK is defined as, and that your experience may be different if you shot arms legs torso or head the most=)

EDIT: These numbers make no sense if M249 is 1 kill headshot, or I fkd up this calculation somehow! (Because TTK should rise when taking away headshots right, so I removed a flawed part)

last edited by Pacalis


PKM in my opinion should be killing with hits in the legs. If 3 of your targets are taking two PKM rounds to die for each dying in one, I'd argue that's a pretty hefty problem. That gun shoots an ENORMOUS round.

To case example the M249, I have less than twice your time using it yet I have well over four times your round count. I think it's safe to say there's some difference in the way we're using the weapon.

In the interest of interpreting the differences in statistics, are yours predomiantly from PvP? If so, is the proportion of players in PvP running heavy armour lower than that of the AI? (My stats with the M249 are 100% from coop.)

Even having said what's said, it's perfectly possible the way you use your mouse puts more shots on centre mass. I will freely state that I'm quite happy to hose down enemies in full auto as I fully believe it's the meta since the guns don't hurt. If you use your weapons in semi or fire very tight bursts, I'd expect your rounds-to-kill would be slightly lower.

Even so, even with the statistics you're providing, it's evident that the weapons in this game are not lethal.

last edited by Whitby

Offline bots are broken, or if thats how dmg happens on pvp, armor is completely broken, bots seem to take the same amount of hits no matter if they have armor or not, theres no difference between any of the armors, and shooting at the limbs is the same as shooting in the chest, of course except for the head where they die to one shot.

Btw, the fal is a one shot to the chest no matter what, yet the m24 takes 2 shots to kill an unarmored insurgent to the chest, surely the bots must be broken.

last edited by FreedN

At least in Insurgency 2014 pvp that was not the case. I can not speak for PVE, because bots are easy to kill in both games for me, so I really don't care

Are bots supposed to have different dmg and health values to actual players online? Im trying to do a dmg spreadsheet but bots are just fucked up and i dont have a player to test with.


In Insurgency 2014 every limb had a different dmg value depending on weapon++
If there is a difference between PVP and PVE I do not know, as all tests I have seen was between players.

I tried with some bots in offline, but its like the whole body except for the head take the same dmg, thats really fucked up.

Unless they already fixed it with this next patch coming.


Add me on Steam. Same name as on here. I have a server and we can do any testing you'd like to do. I'm curious.

Wait, are you the Whitby with the avatar of a soldier and the text fella?


Nope, current avatar is a meme of Donald Trump.