Hardcore negant.

Honestly its a little bs. Insurgents, give AKM 3 mags, Security M16A2 3 mags. This would balance out far far better and give everyone a fighting chance

I have to agree, the respawning player should get a gun that's both common and useful instead of the Mosin-Nagant, which doesn't so much introduce a handicap as it changes the player into a sniper.

Unmodded AKM and M16A4 (since the A2 is actually an Insurgent weapon and acts as more of a side grade for the AKM) for Insurgents and Security respectively, or alternatively, a basic unmodded version of the gun they were already using. These guns are basic, cheap and actually make sense in that they're the mainstays of armed forces, from insurgents to militias. Heck, any unmodded gun would be fine, since the extra strength comes less from the gun and more from the mods (scopes, VFGs and mags).

The problem with the Mosin Nagant is that it doesn't act as a handicap so much as it turns the user into a sniper. It's lack of versatility means that it forces a certain play style on the player instead of just acting as a basic gun that the player moves up from. I get that there's supposed to be a penalty in the way of being confined to a basic gun if you die, but the problem with the Mosin is that it doesn't just act as a basic gun so much as it acts as a complete change in role for the player (being turned into a sniper) and thus isn't all that much fun overall.

Youre very right. My mistake the A4 would make more sense.

@plppln I feel like you're given a Mosin as it's the most widespread weapon to find in that kind of conflict; same as the Makarov.

I actually like using the Mosin as it's still plenty viable on its own. You just gotta play smart.

last edited by MarksmanMax

Having handled a lot of weapons overseas, I can say without a doubt that there will be more AK and M16 series weapons than Mosins, by a huge margin. Even discounting the regular armed forces, we probably found 10 AKs for every other long gun, so I don't think realism is well served by the Mosin being default.

Especially for security, most infantymen aren't even trained on foreign weapons before reaching theater, and most who do will be trained on the AK/PKM series.

Gameplay wise, it totally changes the player from an effective member of the squad to a liability, if we can't get at least a usable gun I'd honestly rather just stay dead for 2 points.

@jballou said in Hardcore negant.:

Gameplay wise, it totally changes the player from an effective member of the squad to a liability, if we can't get at least a usable gun I'd honestly rather just stay dead for 2 points.

I love using the Mosin (can't say the same for the Makarov though lmao), so I have no problem here. Hell, it's one of the best Sandstorm firearms because it at least fucking kills people if you land your shots.

i liked the system at first but now its just annoying AF
once you die the game turns into hunt for dropped guns and ammo instead of fighting, either give more resupply crates or give something more usable as a respawn loadout

@bkriszhun said in Hardcore negant.:

i liked the system at first but now its just annoying AF
once you die the game turns into hunt for dropped guns and ammo instead of fighting, either give more resupply crates or give something more usable as a respawn loadout

A lot of people seem to not know about this, but every objective that doesn't have a resupply box should have a few small ammo boxes lying around. These boxes typically give you two mags for your primary and secondary weapons, and should definitely give you enough ammo to continue fighting as long as you're using your ammunition somewhat wisely. I say "should" because Outskirts seemingly has none of these spawns, and also lacks a resupply box at the final counterattack.

You do get a decent amount of ammo for your Mosin though at 25 rounds total, which can technically kill 25 people with just torso shots (and possibly more if you get collats). Most dropped weapons can't really compete with that unless you can scavenge several magazines. Also, a lot of dropped weapons have a 4x scope which makes using them in CQB harder than the Mosin with ironsights.

last edited by MarksmanMax

@marksmanmax said in Hardcore negant.:

A lot of people seem to not know about this, but every objective that doesn't have a resupply box should have a few small ammo boxes lying around. These boxes typically give you two mags for your primary and secondary weapons, and should definitely give you enough ammo to continue fighting as long as you're using your ammunition somewhat wisely. I say "should" because Outskirts seemingly has none of these spawns, and also lacks a resupply box at the final counterattack.

You do get a decent amount of ammo for your Mosin though at 25 rounds total, which can technically kill 25 people with just torso shots (and possibly more if you get collats). Most dropped weapons can't really compete with that unless you can scavenge several magazines. Also, a lot of dropped weapons have a 4x scope which makes using them in CQB harder than the Mosin with ironsights.

@marksmanmax Oh i have only played hardcore outskirts, so that explains a lot.
Howewer i know you have 25 shots with the Mosin, but i dont want to run around 90% of the game with a mosin and a makarov, so i need to scavenge for another weapon.
Btw. i like using 4x scopes, so thats not really a problem for me

@bkriszhun said in Hardcore negant.:

Oh i have only played hardcore outskirts, so that explains a lot.

@bkriszhun said in Hardcore negant.:

Btw. i like using 4x scopes, so thats not really a problem for me

Well, Outskirts is a big map, so weapons with 2x and 4x scopes are highly effective. That being said, a 4x on an Uzi or shotgun isn't justifiable lmao.

last edited by MarksmanMax

what is really annoying howewer is, if you load in late you can only spawn with the nagant loadout, that really needs to be fixed, if you get thown into an already ongoing match you cant even use your own loadout

Honestly, the more I think about it and play it, the more the mandatory mosin seems less like a challenge and more like artificial difficulty. The problem with such difficulty is that since there's no actual challenge to it, it quickly loses its appeal once the novelty wears off.

There's many alternative ways in which the objective of making death more impactful could be achieved without resorting to creating handicaps such as this. A simple example of an alternative would be adding in more objectives between respawns.

I wouldnt even mind if the players corpse and kit was retrievable. However it could easily mean deliberatly splitting up the team to retrieve more usable weapons.

Also, AKs are vastly more available than a Nagant. Its the most produced firearm in history after all. I wouldnt even mind if security got an AK since thats what lots of security forces in that part of the world would be using. I just think the Nagant makes the game artificially hard for no meaningful reason other than 'It was a cool idea and we thought we would test it'. And it is a cool idea, maybe just not the Nagant.

A good compromise may be that when a player is killed, his kit gets dropped.

On respawn, he can go back to where he was killed, and get whatever is left that hasn't been scavenged by other players.

@jballou said in Hardcore negant.:

A good compromise may be that when a player is killed, his kit gets dropped.

On respawn, he can go back to where he was killed, and get whatever is left that hasn't been scavenged by other players.

@jballou you are talking about minecraft

last edited by BKriszHUN

@BKriszHUN we already have a creeper with the suicide bomber 😃

@jballou but he doesnt hiss, he just rings

@BKriszHUN Well this just shows that we have an immediate need for a sound and skin mod to convert the suicide bomber to a green hissy boi